Some Origional Razors Edge Dogs

For those of you with RE dogs in your lines here are some of the first RE dogs.


GR.CH. RAZORS EDGE SADEY'S PADDINGTON


GR CH RAZORS EDGE THROWIN KNUCKLES (UKC)


CH RAZORS EDGE RAZZLE DAZZLE


CH RAZORSEDGE JAZZY JEWELZ


CH RAZORS EDGE INNA RAGE

Just a couple of the origional Razors Edge dogs. Once upon a time they actually did thing with their dogs, and they didn't look half bad. They are AmStaff/ABPT Crosses at this point.

It's really irrelevant, IMO. The dog has still been mutated and disrespected by these fad breeders. When the registries, the media, the breeders, and the owners actually man up, so to speak, and start showing some pride in their new breed by not hiding behind the APBT label, then I may take some interest. Until then, recognizing these dogs only encourages them to further destroy the APBT's reputation.

It wasn't really meant to be relevant, I just found it interesting since I own an AmBully and so do other people on this site.

No need to be rude.

BlueBullyBabe wrote:

I own an AmBully
.

Yeah, like that. Not trying to be rude, just to the point and honest.

Came off a little harsh :) I love my girl I don't care what you call her.

buzhunter wrote:

...just to the point and honest.

That's good ol' buz for ya, lol. Hey Buz, those Razor Edge PITBULLS are pretty nice, huh

Even back then they were fairly bully. Inna Rage looks like a Staffybull. I wonder if Dave had in mind from the start just how far he was going to move his line away from the standard.

I dunno I learned from Patch that Inna and Knuckles were not breed by Dave, they are just foundation dogs.

It would be interesting to ask him if what his dogs are now are what he had in mind.

BlueBullyBabe wrote:

It would be interesting to ask him if what his dogs are now are what he had in mind.

Yes it would, I found the following at: http://www.bluepassionkennel.com/page/page/5929328.htm

Don't know the credibility, but here's a quote from it:

In a letter to a newspaper, Dave Wilson wrote, "The 'Back 2 the Bullies' convention to be held tomorrow...is not for the 'celebration of the pit bull' as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the 'pit bull.'

"We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.

"Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now."

NesOne wrote:

BlueBullyBabe wrote:

It would be interesting to ask him if what his dogs are now are what he had in mind.

Yes it would, I found the following at: http://www.bluepassionkennel.com/page/page/5929328.htm

Don't know the credibility, but here's a quote from it:

In a letter to a newspaper, Dave Wilson wrote, "The 'Back 2 the Bullies' convention to be held tomorrow...is not for the 'celebration of the pit bull' as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the 'pit bull.'

"We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.

"Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now."

It's been said over and over that he was misquoted in that article. Whether he was or not, only the writer of the article and DW know. I won't defend RE dogs. I think they are a genetic mess and they should be stripped of the APBT label. I don't think it will ever happen because all registries rely on the honesty and integrity of breeders when sending in paperwork. Let's all not forget there are tons and tons of game bred dogs with hung papers too. Also, let's not forget about the $$$$$ either. Why would they boot thousands of people away to go register somewhere else when it's their business. It's a sad reality, but we are stuck with these folks calling them APBT.....like it or not. I'm not saying it's right or I agree with it, just saying how it is in reality.

I also agree with bahamutt. Most all those dogs do look pretty bully to me. Would they if you got their fat asses in shape????? I dont know.....prbly not as bad.

Now before anybody goes ******** I was bashing RE dogs, I'M NOT! As a matter of fact one of mine is sired by Kiles Diego. Son of Macho's Iceberg. A 100% RE dog. All those dogs pictured are in Nicodemus' pedigree. Not 10 freakin' generations back either. Nick doesn't look like them because his mother was a fine fine dog off of Jinny York's yard by the name of Kile's Grace, who was originally sold to twisted metal kennels. He is also kept in shape instead of 25 lbs of fat hanging off of him.

Here is the kind of shape I'd rather see those dogs in pictured and maybe people wouldn't ***** so much.

Nick is an ok representation, but when relaxed he is lippy, and has too much dewlap. He has taken a couple firsts and a few thirds in ADBA shows, but for the most part gets passed up on any given wieekend of showing.......which just goes to show most judges can see through the muck.

One last thing, I own Nick because he didn't seel (like the blue dogs did) and he was gonna be disposed of. I could not watch it happen, so I took him home. He has not, nor will he ever be bred.......even though he is a crowd favorite at any show we have ever been to. When people find out how he's bred they fall the **** over! I can't say how many people have told me that I have the nicest looking RE dog they have ever seen.

He is awsome looking. I hope Sway turns out that way also.

BlueBullyBabe wrote:

He is awsome looking. I hope Sway turns out that way also.

Good luck with him! Just keep em exercised good, don't over feed to get the "barrell" look, and feed quality kibble to keep the allergies away. I think those are the best things you could do if you have a bully type dog that will help the most in the long run. I know folks who will feed dog chow, their dog gets all scabbed up from scratching from all the damn allergies from the food, they go to the vet and put the dog on prednisone for a couple weeks, the allergies go away, but only for a couple months only to repeat the whole process over again.

All the while they could have been feeding a quality kibble such as Natures Variety Venison formula (which is what I feed Nick) and all the above mess could have been avoided.

'She' :) Gets good stuff so far no sign of allergies she gets quality food (I'd probably be better off eating it lol)

Also planning on trying her at weight pull so that should help keep her conditioned.
Thanks for the advice though, I try to keep her well excersized.

Here is my ambull that I aquired trying to find a good line. When I asked questions at GP (most of you are here) you were all like good luck on your search with no point in direction. Yup he has razorz edge. and for buz comment, red you gonna tell him to open a new post and tell him to post his findings like you did me, in a similiar thread.

[IMG]https://2img.net/h/i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc302/406freak/pictures1161.jpg[/IMG]


So to all the haters that don't wanna point a newb in the right direction, the APBT was breed by two different breeds also, so in lameous terms you have mutts too.
I hope you ban my IP and here is your greeter tag. This is the second time that I have seen this shit in here and alot more at GP, but that is why I came here didn't think that all of you would be so breed specific. But then again why not most of you are from there. So I am going to go help my breed and good luck with yours. Thats how newbs help newbs IMHO. Atleast thats what you all show me.

This topic always seems to pop up and cause problems. Kinda like talking about money in a marriage.

Here is what I am going to say, and I am not saying it to argue, or to get anyone to change my mind, because it is how I see it and is only my opinion based on the knowledge that I have absorbed on the topic:

Yes, the APBT was mixed about a century or so ago to get it to where it is now. Along with all the other breeds of dogs we now see today. All mixes - every one - once upon a time. But after years of selective breeding of same-type dogs you cannot really call them a mix.

But you don't take a pure bred Golden Retriever, mix it with a Chow, and call it a bigger, better Golden Retriever. However, if a mix is created, and perpetuated by years of selective breeding of those mixed dogs, you will then have yourself a new breed. Case and point: The AmBully. Even it's creator admits it is an entirely new breed that was created by mixing several different breeds to achieve the look, color, temperment, etc that they had in mind.

Once that goal is achieved and those types of dogs are bred with one another to create a more streamlined version of said dog is when you are getting away from a mixed breed and into a new breed.

Not everyone who posts on an AmBully thread is bashing the dogs B. Aside from a few opinionated individuals (and everyone is entitled to their own opinions) that have actually stated their dislike of the dogs. However, the beef I think most APBT fanciers have is the fact that AmBully breeders are using the name PIT BULL to make some money. Which leads me to another point. You breed something, call it something it's not - "a rare 110# pit bull guaranteed to have a 32" head" - look online or in the paper, I guarantee you will find at least a dozen of these ads - then tell people it's "rare" and charge a few grand for it. No wonder! I don't blame them for being pi$$ed.

But if the advertisers were honest, and were actually trying to make a better breed instead of a better buck, then maybe there might not be so much negativity surrounding the topic. Maybe then you might hear things like "What a good looking AmBully!". Instead of "you call your dog a WHAT?!?!"

JMO, of course.

a couple things...
one: what is GP referring too??? i know i'm a lil slow sometimes, just help me out :) i have seen it alot lately and i am totally confused

two: why can't am bully's be a breed?? and why are they so looked down upon? i get that alot of people mislable them as apbt and that isn't good but people also lable apbt's as am staffs which isn't completely correct. yeah they may have some physical defects (according to some) but don't you think all breeds had that problem when they were starting out?? most dog "breeds" aren't very old, you may be able to trace them back for generations but lets all remember a dogs generation is not that long.
sheesh i have a lot of questions don't i this seems to be the only place i get answers that don't make me feel like a dumba@# though, so put up with it!!

Megs,

GP = Go Pit Bull forum

I don't think people are saying they are not a breed - but that they need to more clearly define themselves as a breed and stop riding the coat tails of the APBT. IMO.

Hope that helps.

thanx!!
it clears up the GP thing. (i'm so outta the loop )
i just wonder how long it takes a group to define thier dogs as a breed to the general public and others. and from what i get, again i can be lil slow :) , are these dogs so bad that it is hurting the apbt breed??? from what i know they are good dogs they just are too "bully" to be called apbt, which of course needs to be acknowledged and fixed but i don't see it as being "that" bad.

Not all AmBullies are bad, no. Some are bred very well. Take BlueBullyBabe's Sway. She is a good looking dog with a good build.

But when you get something that looks like a miniature hippo with elbows pointing out and obvious hip problems that is only going to live to be about 8 or 9 it is that bad. That's why there needs to be stricter regulations on AmBully breedings and a clearly defined breed standard.

Until that happens there will be controversy.

gotcha.

Razers Edge in The Words of Dave Wilson

---

Since everyone seems stuck on the issue lately, I compiled some of the past research I've done on the RE bloodline, hopefully it will clear some things up, like how it is not an APBT

In the words of Dave Wilson,

"Razors Edge was started in MD and DC long before there was ever a Knuckles. My friend Carlos Barksdale and I started it with game dogs. We researched everything we could find. We read every book publicized at that time. Subscribed to many dog magazines like the ADBA Gazette, even some underground ones. We called damn near every breeder that we could find and questioned them. If it said Pit, we were on it. We all had already owned some unpapered BYB Pits. We even had our own Pit club and went hiking and other things back in the woods. Eventually we got enough money to get some real papered, good bloodline, game dogs. We purchased some of the best around at the time. Even paid $3500 way back then for a Grandson of the great "Plumbers Alligator", mainly Mayfield lines. We were very heavy into the game lines. I had dogs from Hemphill/Wilder blood. These were big game dogs.
Later on I hooked up with George Williams in DC and we purchased a dog we named Diablo, from Wildside Kennels. Diablo's dad was a bigger catch dog, "Hollinsworth Bull". His mom was a game girl names "Wildsides Ms.Leaky". This was the turn around time when Razors Edge started adding more size.
The first ever registered "ADBA" Razors Edge breeding was from my Mayfield boy Zeus to a Mayfield girl name Jinx. Jinx was actually given to friend back then named Curt Plater. Now CLP Kennels. He owned the first ever Razors Edge dog. We would lose contact after this for many years before hooking up again.
I had another pure Colby male named Dante that was placed in DC with my man Dave Conrad. Dante went on and shook up DC, but that was the old days.
They banned Pits in PG County and I was forced to move. Eventually through my job in the Pet Store industry I landed a mangers job at a Pet Store in Va. Virginia was the spot for pet lovers! I managed a Pet Store, worked as a professional dog trainer, and still bred bigger ADBA game dogs. Basically, I bred my own now. I also put fliers n the Washington Post explaining what the breed was and what Razors Edge was. I had to move to Va.
I hooked up with Jeannie Howe who became a co-owner of Razors Edge.
I met a guy name Ron Smith who came aboard and took it to another level.
I saw this blue dog named "Steel Town Blue Monday"! I was hooked! Ron already knew every UKC and AKC breeder under the son. He had been researching on his own for years. So this man had all the pictures, info, etc…. He had fliers and pictures from every AKC and UKC breeder from Coast to coast. He literally had pictures of almost all the dogs in all these pedigrees. That man really is the "Pit Guru".
We first contact Cock 'n' Bull Kennels, the ones that produced Monday. They turned us onto people in Cali with that blood. Candace Eggart was one. Candy sent us pictures of what she had and what she had going on. Just to give you a time frame. She sold a dog years later to Tony Moore named Showtime! Showtime went on to be one of the foundation bitches in the Greyline! So this was years before Greyline was even around.

We went to every breeder on the East Coast. Up north to Bobby Morehouse, Beth Jones, My man Lee Fitzgerald, Flying A's, Minot's Ledge, etc…… We actually purchased a blue brindle female named "Sadey" from Minot's Ledge. This litter was had an extraordinary pedigree. The top half were mainly Flying A's dogs like "Oreo" and "Reo Speedwagon". Dogs I had seen and liked. You could see in the extended pedigree how these dogs stemmed from Ruffian dogs. Then you could see how it went back even further from the AKC Ruffian dog to the UKC Colby dogs. This top half of the pedigree actually showed how Pits eventually were registered as Staffs! I thought that was cool to see on paper and in a dog I owned. Then the bottom half of the ped went right back to Stratton dogs. Dogs like Going light Barney, dogs I grew up reading about! Thanks to Richard Stratton, LOL! Then behind them were the same Colby dogs I saw on the top half of the pedigree. So I had this dog that showed the history of the Am.Staff and the directions the Colby line went in the UKC. We also purchased a male named "Razors Edge Blue Maxx". His top half was a dog named "StoryTime's Upon this Rock" AKA "Peter" Peter was a dog bred by Beth Jones. He was a big ass dog, but kinda ugly. They bred him to "Wassuc's Farm Maggie May". I really liked this compact girl. We researched her lines and found she was Ryan. When we got to see the Ryan dogs we were surprised to see they were game dogs. They were AKC registered Staffs, but they still bred for game dogs! This was something I had never seen, I'm sure that's why the AKC people didn't like that line. However; I loved it! Bully, game, blue, staffs! Now that's what I am talking about! LOL Maxx was our boy from this blood. Now Razors Edge was big ADBA game dogs, one UKC Blue Brindle girl, and a Big hot Blue Fawn AKC boy.

In Va there was Sharon Stone of Cloverhill, who had the biggest Staffs I had ever seen! Her old stuff was huge! Too tall for what I was looking for, but huge! They changed years later and went more showy. Paco, was in my opinion actually a throw back of her older days. Ginny York, Pam Perdue, GiGi, The Garretts, etc….We visited them all. Even went down to Florida and checked out Marsha Woods. Met KC Courtier of Watchdog Kennels. Eventually, we went up to Md and met Kimmar Kennels. As soon as I stepped on the ranch, I knew I had found the build I was looking for! The Razors Edge package was almost complete.
We also had been advertising in the Washington Post for many years. Some young Kats from DC used to come down and hang out and bring their dogs. Edwin Salinas and Joey Nevils were two of them. These guys had been buying dogs from Kimmar and mixing their own stuff in them too. Kimmar used to have an add in the post under the Pit Bull adds, it said "Petey pups". They didn't want their dogs to be labeled as Pits; but they advertised directly under Pits? Hmmmmmm? Not as Staff? Anyway, local Kats knew the deal and picked up a lot of her dogs. Joey, Edwin, Joey's pop, and their boys had a bunch of these dogs. Even some old friends of mine Jerry and Gerrold had yards with these dogs. We all also had game stuff in the mix. I tapped into a lot of their dogs as well.
In Kimmar's yard I learned a lot about breeding and genetics. I spent every weekend there for almost three years. I actually put on a training class for all her buyers every Sunday.
Razors Edge had been breeding now for a few generations. We even used a lot of her dogs from other people in the mix. Ron, also had some York dogs, and some other AKC stuff, we experimented with. Before we got Knuckles or any of them, Razors Edge was already in the game. Kimmar actually used our dog Maxx for some breedings. Eventually we purchased around 15 dogs from her line, including Knuckles and Rage. While these pups were growing, Razors Edge already had it's formula. We just wanted a different head. We also were not given papers on some of these dogs and they had to be UKC registered instead! This is where Razors Edge became heavily involved in UKC.
Ron made a sharp turn and went back into the game dogs. He jumped heavy into the RedBoy line and vanished?
I started searching for a better head and came into some Watchdog stuff. KC was not breeding anymore, so I had to find that blood somewhere else. I bought dogs from Grapevine Kennels. I hit up Hughzee's, who I believe later on became Chaos Kennels. We had been talking to Pam from Gaff Kennels for a few years, and really liked a boy name Seiko! So we got a dog from her. We experimented with a lot of lines and different dogs. Razors Edge started having a real consistent look. The heads were big, but we still wanted the to be a little more blocky. A few generations later it was pretty much there.

The reason for posting this is because we have been asked how this line began. Also to show that it goes way beyond the dogs you see today. It wasn't just as easy as breeding two dogs and waiting a couple of generations and calling it a line. This was creation from research, and as you can see, many years and lines went into it. This is just the backbone info too. Razors Edge had many ears to follow before the line was complete.

Razors Edge Maxx had kids featured on the cover of DogWorld at this time. So the name was out, and Knuckles was still a pup!

Then one day a man called from an advertisement we placed in The Washington Post. He came by with this little blocky head blue puppy male he called Mr.Brooks. There it was, the final ingredient. By the way, this was 1992 ish. Gary and I collaborated on many breedings from that point on. We both started showing our dogs and doing quite well in the ring. By 1994 Razors Edge had it's final look and was consistently producing it. Thanks to all these lines and people involved. A lot happened from that point on…..but that's an even longer story. A lot of people claim to know these dogs and this line; but this is before they got into the dogs.

Dogs like ShortShot were made almost 4 years later and remained in Razors Edge yard until around 1999. Then we were reunited with an old friend Curt, and he was placed with him. He had the first RE dog ever made and he got one of the best RE dogs created!

I use him for an example, to explain how these dogs went into other yards and onto other lines and kennels. Razors Edge dogs were always placed amongst friends. That was the point of the line, to share with everyone. A lot of the guys came around years later and also got into this line. No this isn't against True Tank, like it may be perceived. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is people discrediting the line and saying it's just this and this. Without giving credit to all the years it took to make it. Now the way I see TT posting these days is very respectful. There is an understanding, they use this line as their foundation. Maybe things haven't gone smooth, but now it has gone in a better direction. Respect for that. Respect for using this line."

here's Shortshots ped, Knuckles in second generation back, you can go back and see what kind of dogs went into the foundation of his line

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...?dog_id=231233

here's their new registry

http://www.abkcdogs.org/

Come see our gentle 'bullies,' unfairly savaged by a currish editorial

October 6, 2006 12:50 am

AS PRESIDENT of Razors Edge and one of the founders of the American Bully, I am appalled by your Oct. 3 editorial "Bully for the bulls?" Your statements are not only offensive but inaccurate.
The "Back 2 the Bullies" convention to be held tomorrow at the Fredericksburg Expo Center is not for the "celebration of the pit bull" as you allege; it is for public awareness of the American Bully. This is a new breed created more than 15 years ago, and it is a separate breed from the "pit bull."
We blended different breeds together to obtain certain desired traits. The American pit bull terrier was one of the breeds whose lineage is in the background of this breed, but it is by no means the only breed behind it.
Even the part of the lineage that is American pit bull terrier stems from United Kennel Club-registered conformation show dogs! There is also an American Kennel Club-registered show breed in the lineage of this breed called the American Staffordshire terrier. Some breeders even included some bulldog lineage into their breeding. This breed has been established for over 10 years now.
The American Bully Kennel Club was created for the registry and promotion of this breed. These dogs have extremely mellow demeanors and were bred for the purpose of companionship. If you had researched the breed or the event, you might have learned more about what you were falsely commenting on.
We have been hosting these shows for more than four years now and have a great track record with major cities all over the United States. These events have all been a success, and people continue to request them in their areas. We have people flying in from all over the United States, and even confirmed guests from Japan, Italy, and the Philippines.
These events have been amazing for bringing all types of people together from all over the world--all races and all genders. The amount of public support has been overwhelming. For this area, the event is also helping the local economy. Three major hotels in this area are sold out, not to mention all the restaurants and pet stores that stand to gain business. Major pet stores, pet-feed companies, rescues, animal shelters, attorneys, and other organizations and individuals are backing and sponsoring this event.
To talk about this event in the context of young girls murdered by a serial killer is sick. How do you think the families of those children feel seeing that incident brought back up and being used in association with a dog show?
Then to talk about a sanctioned dog show in connection with a mauling by a pack of dogs running at large? The dogs that mauled Dorothy Sullivan weren't even pure pit bulls. But whatever breed they were, the tragedy has no correlation with this show. The poor woman who was mauled deserves more respect than to be brought into a commentary about a dog show. This entire editorial was plain sick.
At our event, the local animal control office maintains a booth with a donations box set up for its shelter. Also with booths are dog-rescue organizations that inform the public about all the dogs being put to sleep in shelters. Also at show we have a task force that seeks to bring to justice illegal dog fighters. We have a lady who runs programs in the low-income areas of major cities, and who helps underprivileged children through working with dogs.
We have five nonprofit organizations manning booths. As people from all over the world come to our event, we even have the local police department working there to ensure the safety of all patrons and participants.
At our event, nothing illegal is being promoted, permitted, or advertised. We have done no wrong at all. Our event simply seeks to certain promote a breed in a positive way.
Your editorial misinformed the public about the nature of "Back 2 the Bullies" and the breed it highlights.


DAVE WILSON of Spotsylvania County is president of Razor's Edge, the main company sponsoring tomorrow's Back 2 the Bullies convention.

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2...ex_html?page=1

Dave wrote that letter to the editor in response to this article:

Bully for the bulls?

October 3, 2006 12:50 am

Bully for the bulls? NINE YEARS AGO, movie theaters in the Fredericksburg area decided that a new Morgan Freeman movie called "Kiss the Girls" hit too close to home. In the fall of 1997, it had been just a year since the abduction and slaying of 16-year-old Sofia Silva of Spotsylvania County, and just months since two other Spotsylvania girls, Kristin and Katie Lisk, 15 and 12, respectively, had been abducted and slain under similar circumstances. With the killer at large, local residents were at once in mourning and in fear.
In a decision that some called sensitive, and some sillily called "censorship," the theaters declined to run the movie, which told the story of a series of kidnap-killings. It was a rare instance of businesses putting community sensibilities ahead of the next buck. "Kiss the Girls" didn't claim any Oscars, but it did gross $60.5 million--none of which came from the Fredericksburg area.
This coming Saturday, the Fredericksburg Expo Center will host the "Back 2 the Bullies Convention," a celebration of the pit bull terrier, the controversial breed blamed in the March 2005 mauling death of Spotsylvania Countian Dorothy Sullivan, an 82-year-old great-grandmother. The Oct. 7 extravaganza at the Expo Center promises "a family-based fun event," states the Web site of the sponsoring American Bully Kennel Club. Certainly some families will find it just that. "Who would have ever thought that Fredericksburg, Virginia, would be the home of one of the hottest events in history?" the site barks. "Top Bullies and the hottest models on the planet, in the same place at the same time."
Will the show go on? It looks that way. Is it in good taste in this area, at this time, after the more dangerous side of the pit-bull breed has demonstrated itself in fatal fashion hereabouts? Many, surely, think not.
Dollar signs have a way of short-circuiting the memory banks. Maybe those who decided that the pit-bull show was a good idea weren't aware of the events of 19 months ago, and the subsequent trial and conviction of the dogs' owner on involuntary manslaughter charges. Or maybe they were, but thought that enough time had elapsed to fête the hackle-raising canine.
But in this community, a good time is not had by all when pit bulls are the stars of the show.


http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2...0032006/225383

Now some will argue his letter was taken out of context, or edited by the paper, but the thing is, it was uploaded directly to the website by Dave Wilson himself, as you see it.

So...don't get me wrong, there are still some nice looking RE dogs, some on this very forum in fact, hell, Whiskey probably has RE blood in him. I think Dave Wilson probably started out with good intentions, but things seem to have spun horribly out of control.

My last point is how can anyone consider these dogs APBT's when the founder of their line not only doesn't consider them APBT's but denounces them being called "pit bulls" or APBT's?

Good post B. That's the only beef I ever had was that they were calling them pits. I never had a problem with AmBullies.