BYB's Killed the APBT

All to often we talk about rescuing being a good thing, Or is it?
Most of, if not all pits in a shelter was bred by a BYB so are we not supporting the BYB?

Well I don't totally agree with that. We can't know for sure if most of the dogs in shelters were bred by bybs or breeders that simply didn't microchip. The only way to identify any dog is by them being chipped or tatted which is why ALL my dogs are microchipped. I want to know for sure if one of mine land in the pound/shelters so I can get them asap. I more so blame irresponsible owners for the dogs being in shelters then anything else. People think oh gee this will be a nice christmas present or gift next thing you know it's oh well it was too much work or I don't have the time etc etc. People sicken me because if they actually took time to think things through and decide hey do I really want to do this then there would be less dogs at the shelters! For instance I had a family buy a pup from me, told me they had a boy but that someone either stole him or let him out their yard and that he is microchipped. I said well what will you do if you get him back, the father said we'll keep both. Not a month later I'm getting a call that they got their boy back and it's to hard with two dogs. I tell him of course you can bring him back but you don't get a refund unless I sell him but that I'll be honest my cousin wanted the dog I sold him and that I was going to call my cousin tell him come get him. He said well that's okay we'll keep both dogs. So that leaves me wondering hmmm did you really want to give him back or did you just want some money back? People are something else lmao. I'm sure if I said yeah i'll give you a full refund the dog would have been back that same day so is it really bybs hurting us or silly people or even a combination of both?

Most definitely a combination..
And yes, If you said refund that dog would of been right back..lol

Totally agree there would be no pure bred nor quality dogs left to purchase and eventually no dogs at all but see they take pride in being able to put the blame off on others, nobody wants to be responsible for the out come of anything these days.

If bad breeders didn't sell to bad owners their wouldn't be and issue of our breed in the "wrong hands" Bad breeders is where it starts. As for rescuing, the breeders make no money off of it so I don't see it as effecting them, however when they can breed and sell what they can and then just drop the rest off at a shelter that kinda makes things easy on them.

Look at it like this,
If the BYB had no place to dump off the unwanted ones, would they continue to breed even though they got to the point where they had no more room.
If the shelters didn't get rid of their excess inventory how would they be able to continue doing what they are doing? I think of it as a marketing strategy.

Here's my question, where did the byb get their dogs?

The dogmen of old are always glorrified as some kind of nostalgic royalty. But, if they were so perfect, how did this epidimic start? It couldn't have gotten this bad from just one cur being sold or given away as a pet.

I'm sure if Mr. Colby could see the dogs of today, he would snub his nose in disgust and then hang his head in sorrow for the dogs that used to be.

This is why I don't put too much stock in pedigree. Either the dogmen of generations past weren't as loyal to the breed as we would like to believe, or the majority of the paperwork out there is less than honest.

Did I just get waaay off topic there?

Admin wrote:

Look at it like this,
If the BYB had no place to dump off the unwanted ones, would they continue to breed even though they got to the point where they had no more room.
If the shelters didn't get rid of their excess inventory how would they be able to continue doing what they are doing? I think of it as a marketing strategy.

LOL. I should probably keep this opinion to myself....but, if they don't want them the shelters not being there is not going to stop them. They are already dumping them off so whose to say they just won't dump them at a corner, alley or dumpster. Sorry we are talking about human beings here and they are capable of the most in-humane things

and if it wasn't for the bottom line over breeding of any breed wouldn't be a problem

BYB or kennels, its not who is doing it, its how they are going about it, or what it is about to them at the end of the 8 week mark

But how many people do you think passed home inspection and were approved by a good breeder to get a dog, only to change down the road? Divorce, new mate, move etc. These people could have been good up front to get a dog and later turned around to do some BYB'ing themselves.

I mean, I'm dead set against breeding my dogs yet my ex refused to neuter harley. While I was at work He let harley hook up with my other female that I had an appointment to get spayed. I mean I guess you could look at that for sure as being BYB... yet when I got princess I told the people i would not breed her and she would be getting spayed. Just saying things change sometimes too, and that is a way a BYB could get a dog from a good breeder.

Shades wrote:

Admin wrote:

Look at it like this,
If the BYB had no place to dump off the unwanted ones, would they continue to breed even though they got to the point where they had no more room.
If the shelters didn't get rid of their excess inventory how would they be able to continue doing what they are doing? I think of it as a marketing strategy.

LOL. I should probably keep this opinion to myself....but, if they don't want them the shelters not being there is not going to stop them. They are already dumping them off so whose to say they just won't dump them at a corner, alley or dumpster. Sorry we are talking about human beings here and they are capable of the most in-humane things

and if it wasn't for the bottom line over breeding of any breed wouldn't be a problem

BYB or kennels, its not who is doing it, its how they are going about it, or what it is about to them at the end of the 8 week mark

That's true...

I look at it like this, I try to find my pups the best possible home but should something happen I will take them back in (not to many will take their own bred bys in which is sad!). I have had people I thought were friends say they have no room for their own bred by, I simply say well I guess your done breeding. We bring these lives into the world and I think we should be responsible for them as well!

I'm kind of on the fence about culling. I don't have the heart to do it but I commend those that do not down them because honestly if it's not a quality dog that will have a quality life making it stay here and suffer doesn't seem right. Yet I still don't have the stomach to cull sadly.

I don't think we are supporting BYB, although my Sydney was the product of a BYB, but I didn't know then what I know now...anyways I don't think rescuing helps to support BYB beacause look how many don't get saved...the dogs in the shelters are there because people are so "out of sight, out of mind" that they drop them off or dump them somewhere and would do it regardless of where the dog ends up...if they don't care, they don't care!

I don't disagee that BYB's (of any breed) are over-populating the world and shelters.
But you can also look at it this way....if I breed a litter and keep everyone of the dogs...who is that hurting? It is not adding to the over-population, none are in the shelter and none are with people that could possibly breed them or dump them.
Not saying that all BYB's do this but I am sure some do.

I see it more so as irresponsible people or those who have no ethics or morals if they had any of this they wouldn't be a BYB to begin with.....

I think you'll should read this, I've posted this on afew forums...

Are you a Backyard Breeder?
Originally written by: Sunny Arruda (South Bay Purebred Rescue)
Personalized by: C. Guss (Bastian's Place - Feline & Canine Rescue)



Over 10 million homeless animals are euthanised every year in the United States. The death could easily be stopped by spaying and neutering your pets.

Euthanasia is the single largest cause of death for dogs in the Untied States. Each year 27 million dogs are born. Five to ten million are classified as 'Surplus' and destroyed (killed). That's about one million a
month. These animals are those who 'must' be killed simply because they are unwanted. These numbers do not include the millions of dead dogs scraped off the streets, or the hundreds of thousands of abandoned, severely neglected or abused dogs who never make it to a shelter to be counted and killed.

Most of these animals are young and healthy; in fact, it is estimated that around 80% are less than one year of age. The problem is simple: we have too many dogs with too few homes available. The solution we have opted for is to kill the 'extras'. This solution has been considered acceptable by default, as though there were no other way to control the crisis and we spend over $1 billion every year destroying 'Man's Best Friend'.

Why is this happening in the United States today? The largest ontributors to this problem are Backyard Breeders and Puppy Mills.

The name 'Backyard Breeder' has become very unpopular. Nobody wants to admit they are a backyard breeder. Many people don't even know they are part of the problem. The only way to stop the needless killing
of dogs is to stop the needless breeding of them.

Every breed of dog recognized by the AKC, UKC, ADBA,or CKC has a written standard, a blueprint of what the dog should look and act like. These standards were written so that all would know what a quality example of
the breed is and strive to produce dogs that meet or exceed the standard in health, temperament and appearance. To be sure that you are breeding dogs that meet these standards, your dogs must be judged by people who have a lifetime of experience among the breed. Do you know the standard of your purebred dog?

Does your dog meet this standard according to an AKC judge? If not, your dog is pet quality. Your dog is to be loved, cherished, trained, cared for, spoiled and bragged about but it is NEVER to be bred. No matter how cute or sweet the dog may be, if it is not up to the standard, you have no business breeding it.

If you have a purebred dog, this does not give you the right to breed it. Most purebred dogs are not breeding quality. If you breed your pet quality dog, you are a backyard breeder. Whether you breed the dog in your backyard, garage, living room or an expensive hotel room, the term is still backyard breeder. If your pet quality dog has papers (AKC, UKC, ADBA, CKC), that's nice but it doesn't change anything. You still don't have the
right to breed it.

If your pet quality dog cost you $500 be glad you had the money to afford it. You still don't have the right to breed it.

Do you think that you can make your $500 back if you breed your pet quality dog or if your pet is a color or a size that isn't the breed standard but you just know everyone will want to buy a pup if you breed her? Shame on you! Now you are a backyard breeder with the purpose of peddling pups for bucks.

If the price for a tail dock or an ear crop may seem high to you, what are you going to do when your beloved pet needs an emergency C section? Will you even be there to know if she is in trouble? Would you even be able to recognize the signs before it was too late?

And if you still want to breed your pet quality dog but need to ask who is supposed to cut off the tails and ears, ask yourself "What in the hell am I thinking?"

Do you think genetic testing is something they used in the OJ trial but has nothing to do with your breeding career? You are a backyard breeder.

Backyard breeders sell pup's that aren't up to the standard of the breed. They do this for many reasons. None are good enough reasons to contribute to the killing of the dogs. Period.

Backyard breeders will swear all of their pups went to good homes. They believe this but it's not true. Some may have been luck enough to go to a good home but more than half will end up dead, in a shelter, alone on a cold table with a needle sticking out of their leg. Some of those good homes will get tired of the dog and will just give it away to the first person willing to take it. Some of your beloved dog's children will end
up living alone in a backyard, barking all night, cold and neglected until the owner gets complaints and then the pup will be dead. Some will be starved and beaten. Some will be bred until they die from it.

Some will end up in a rescue and I will have to find space for them. I will have to teach them that not all humans are bad. I will remove their fleas and get rid of their worms. I will have them vaccinated for the first time in their lives because the previous owners neglected to remember. I will spay or neuter the animal to ensure it is not snatched up by someone looking to make a quick buck. I will do all of these things that the previous owner should have done because they didn't want to.

Backyard breeders are not responsible pet owners. They think they love the dogs but that isn't really true because they don't want to bother with all that it takes to breed ethically. They love feeling important when they
say "I breed purebred dogs." but breeding pet quality dogs is not something to be proud of. It is a shame on our society. It is the reason for the death that occurs in shelters. Why do you want to be part of that?

Do you want to be respected? Spay or neuter your pet dog. There is really no other way. The kinds of homes that you want for your pets puppies do not want to purchase a pup from you. They are looking for responsible, respected breeders who are doing something for the breed as a whole. Most of those who will come running to buy one of your pups are the kind of people I wouldn't give a nasty, aggressive dog to. They are people who will turn your sweet little puppy into a shelter once the novelty wears off. That is a fact.

Spay or neuter your pets now and tell everyone you know to do the same. Leave breeding to people who are doing something to better the breed. These people breed for quality, not quantity.

Want to be a respected breeder? Do your research and find an individual who is an educated and respected member of the dog breeding world. Ask this person to be your mentor. You need to know what you are doing before you are even ready to begin.

Have a savings account ready for any and all problems that you will encounter. Purchase only top quality bred dogs and plan on showing them. Do everything that your mentor tells you, he/she has the experience and is not just trying to push you around. Be sure that everything you do as a breeder meets the standards which have been set for responsible breeders.

Or, Don't Breed!

Please do your part to stop the madness... Marty

Thanks Marty...

Thats a great post!

ukc has allowed these (bullies) dogs to be registered as apbt.

The UKC does have a set standard and anyone who goes to the shows will find that their are judges out there they will pass a dog even in a ring alone and not give it a ribbon. It's not up to the registry to make people be ethical it's up to that person to be so. Yet though anyone not affiliated with the registry wouldn't know this but just like ADBA their is a dna challenge option if one fills something wasn't right it can be challenged! I will be the first to admit their are hung paper dogs out there but that's in every registry, UKC, ADBA, AKC , CKC (CANIDIAN KENNEL CLUB) you name it they all have dishonest people and all they can do is try and punish those folks when they are made aware of the situation.

Very good post Mary. I think the key to saving our breed is enforcing a set standard and making each of the different styles be recognized as it's own breed not three breeds in one. Question now becomes how do we push for this to be done?? How do we make the ukc stop registering am staffs as pits? How do we make bully owner register their dogs strictly as such? I can tell you I will gladly stand behind the person that has this solution!

redsky wrote:

The UKC does have a set standard and anyone who goes to the shows will find that their are judges out there they will pass a dog even in a ring alone and not give it a ribbon. It's not up to the registry to make people be ethical it's up to that person to be so.

It is up to the person to be ethical, but there is no enforcing of the mutant piggies that BYB pawn off as $3000 "pit bulls"

Just for instance, my dog Lilbit is in heat for the second time in her life, shes going on 4 yrs old now, I have at least 1000 people that would love a pup off her, but the way things are now she'll never be bred

RedDoggy wrote:

Awe B!!! That's a whole other thread in the making. Why don't you start a new one and report your findings?

Was that for me? Cause I got waaay off topic!!! Sorry.