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RedDoggy
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PostSubject: Brought to my attention   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:06 pm

Okay, I had mixed emotions about this one.....
Originally I had posted this up in the historical section but it was brought to my attention that this pic doesn't look so good. I have to agree with Lindsay that this guy doesn't even look conditioned.... This is bad shape.
I do believe this photo was taken before he ended up on Patricks yard, but here's Tombstone. IMO, one of the greatest pit dogs and producers of all time.





How do you guys feel about this. Is this alarming? Does it tweek your ideas of the old doggers really taking care of their dogs and dog fighting being less cruel back in the day?

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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:15 pm

This doesn't make me feel good, thats for sure. I love this dogs history, except when I see this. This poor guy was obviously starved and I dunno if they just thought it would make him meaner or what. But I do know this, if a dog is malnurished it will not have the energy and drive desired. I know Pat Patrick took better care of this dog than this, but damn, look what he had to go through. Makes me wonder if he got kicked around too. I mean, this guy is thrown into he box, starved, where does it end. I read a story from an old doggers records, a few months before my encarseration, about this dog that was on the road touring boxes with the goal of becoming GrCH. This poor dog was starved and bleeding in the back of a car for hundreds and hundreds of miles. Even in his weakened state, his handler pushed him and pushed him. This dog was the definition of game, he fought through, blocking out all the pain from his kidney and liver damage. In his final match, it was guessed, according to his condition, that his liver had failed and kidneys were grossly infected. His handler still fought him. The story is glorified because the dog won the match, only a few drops of blood away from death. Now, I'm no tree hugger, but to me this is sick. Where is the honor in this? I thought that dog fighting had rules in old times, I thought that handlers kept their dogs top notch, not looking and feeling like shit! I dunno, anyone please add......... Tell me I'm not crazy for feeling bad for some of these dogs.

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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:32 pm

I agree...I was always under the impression the dogs were really well taken care of. But this dog is way skinny. I do not know the story behind the pic..so I would hate to pass judgement. But if I seen this done on the street I would think it was not being fed.
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:48 pm

or could there been a medical condition?
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 8:50 pm

on Tombstone? Not that I can see. He continued to fight and was taken to another yard where he ended up looking much better. I don't care what anybody says, Pat Patrick took damn good care of his dogs, I don't think he woulda won a life time achievement award if he hadn't.

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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 11:11 pm

IMO the pic should not be shown Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 11:18 pm

Yeah, sorry about that.....
I uploaded something like 148 pics and kinda just got lost while doing mindless repetative tasking. Anyway, it's been taken outta the historical section. It's up for debate now though.

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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 11:42 pm

Yeah poor tombstone ... Looks like an emanciated dog to me... You can see the spine poping out and the rib cage looks sunken which would be a good indicator that tombstone was not being fed ... Imo is not a good example of a well conditioned dog
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Fri 12 Sep 2008, 11:58 pm

I did recall thinking that was odd when viewing those pics in the Historical Gallery. It did also cross my mind that there was a reason - the hungrier the dog the harder he will fight because he probably gets fed if he wins. Just a thought...
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Sat 13 Sep 2008, 12:19 am

See, that was my first though.... But there is a fine line. I mean, a dog that is digesting it's own body and not absorbing the nutrients it needs will be sluggish and weak.

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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Sat 13 Sep 2008, 12:56 am

I agree that we don't know just why he's in that bad of condition. It could be something medical. But I think there's no arguing that he is in really poor shape there, and it's not really something I'd want shown.
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Sat 13 Sep 2008, 10:20 am

Yeah that's well beyond conditioning. Seeing ribs is fine in most cases but when you can see the spinal column and hips that's just the body eating its self..

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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Sat 13 Sep 2008, 3:17 pm

I agree, it makes me sick. Unfortunately, that's why there are good dogmen and bad dogmen. The person that had him like that, was a bad dogman.

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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Sat 13 Sep 2008, 6:39 pm

I gotta agree that we don't know the story behind the pic. Can't reasonably assume anything regarding the circumstances behind the physical condition. I can't see anyone starving a dog and then documenting it themselves, then again, people never cease to amaze me. I don't think the picture belong on a site dedicated to educating and squashing myths about the dogs though.
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Fri 26 Sep 2008, 11:57 pm

I've always thought dogmen of old were probably more glorrified than they have any right to be. They were in it to win it. They fought their dogs for money and respect.

I can still appreciate the dogs I have today and respect the characteristics they have without getting all googly eyed over some redneck who fought their dogs.

It's like when our country is at war. I pray for the soldiers and thank them for thier sacrifices. But as for the politicians making them fight thier battles, I say, "Go to hell, Sir."

I'm proud of my country and I'm proud of my dogs. I'm not always proud of the people representing either.
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Thu 16 Oct 2008, 12:19 pm

Has anyone considered this pic may have been taken after a hard match? The dog would be dried up and run down, he would have allready had basically no body fat from the conditioning. I could be wrong but I think the only reason a dogman would take a pic of his dog in this shape would be because he had just made him real proud in the pit.
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Thu 16 Oct 2008, 12:24 pm

I would think that if the dog had just made him real proud in the pit, there would be some swelling on the face and legs, unless the other dog just straight-out sucked, hahahaha.

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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Thu 16 Oct 2008, 12:29 pm

You could be right but the photos not real clear. He didn't have to get real chewed up that could happen from just pushing real hard on game dog that hung in a while. I was just making a suggestion I have seen dogs that were unbelievabley game that couldn't bite hard at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Thu 16 Oct 2008, 5:00 pm

We were actually just discussing this how long it takes for a dog to become emaciated......
It wasn't so much that he was all torn up, it is Tombstone and thats what he does. It was the fact that you can see every rib on him and his hip are sticking out like fins on an old Belair.

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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Mon 27 Oct 2008, 8:40 pm

smokey_joe wrote:
I've always thought dogmen of old were probably more glorrified than they have any right to be. They were in it to win it. They fought their dogs for money and respect.

I can still appreciate the dogs I have today and respect the characteristics they have without getting all googly eyed over some redneck who fought their dogs.

It's like when our country is at war. I pray for the soldiers and thank them for thier sacrifices. But as for the politicians making them fight thier battles, I say, "Go to hell, Sir."

I'm proud of my country and I'm proud of my dogs. I'm not always proud of the people representing either.
well said goodpost
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Mon 03 Nov 2008, 1:39 am

smokey_joe wrote:
I've always thought dogmen of old were probably more glorrified than they have any right to be. They were in it to win it. They fought their dogs for money and respect.

I can still appreciate the dogs I have today and respect the characteristics they have without getting all googly eyed over some redneck who fought their dogs.

It's like when our country is at war. I pray for the soldiers and thank them for thier sacrifices. But as for the politicians making them fight thier battles, I say, "Go to hell, Sir."

I'm proud of my country and I'm proud of my dogs. I'm not always proud of the people representing either.

You go girl! Well said goodpost
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PostSubject: Re: Brought to my attention   Mon 03 Nov 2008, 11:47 pm

Aww, thanks, guys. mug
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