American Pit Bull

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 THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG

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WOULD YOU SAY THE AMSTAFF AND APBT ARE THE SAME BREED
YES:
25%
 25% [ 3 ]
NO:
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 50% [ 6 ]
OTHER: PLEASE SPECIFY IN COMMENTS SECTION
25%
 25% [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 12
 

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PostSubject: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 7:47 am

Ok so I find this to be very puzzling the amstaff and the apbt would you say they are the same dog? While the purpose of the breeds today may have changed it seems to me back when colby began his line his dogs looked more amstaff were amstaffs fighting dogs back when?. I have even seen some of his dogs registered as american stafforshire terrier's and weren't colby's dogs box dogs? I would be curious to hear what some of you may think. In my opinion I see them as the same dog. What is the real difference? I hear some people say well amstaff is more of a show dog? Does this mean that amstaffs cannot compete in weight pull and agility and still excel as a working dog? Seems to me the amstaff started out as a working dog only the AKC wanted to seperate the dog from the fighting image. But how would that change the way the dog was orginally bred when the sole purpose of the breed was to fight. That is not something that just goes away even if the AKC wanted it that way right? To me it seems to be more of an image thing that went on with the registries but I can't see how that would make a seprete breed when orginally they were the same breed. Sorry but I find that to be CROCK OF .... PFFFFT LOL



Introduction



Sixty years ago a delightful gang of kids romped across movie screens accompanied in their antics by their faithful dog Petey, a sturdy white pooch with a colored patch over one eye. Petey performed a remarkable array of tricks to help the kids in and out of scrapes -- all in all, he was the consummate childrens' pet.
The original Petey was Lucenay's Peter, a purebred dog registered as an American Pit Bull Terrier with the United Kennel Club and as one of the 50 original Staffordshire Terriers accepted into the American Kennel Club. Whichever breed name is claimed for Petey, one thing is certain; today this dog could not be kept within many city limits without facing arrest and euthanasia. American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are outlaws by city ordinance as vicious dogs.
The American Pit Bull Terrier has a long history as a dog of the common man, and it is from his basic stock that the AKC's AmStaffs and Staffs developed.

History


In 1835 the British Parliament outlawed bull baiting, a sadistic gambling game in which bulldogs were used to attack and harass bulls brought to market with the dubious intention of tenderizing the meat. The dog would assault the bull, avoid the stomping hooves and slashing horns, grab a tender nose or ear, and hang on until the bull collapsed. Commoners and royalty alike sought diversion from the violence and diseases of their day by attending these bloody spectacles until a public outcry forced Parliament to take a stand.
Once bull baiting was banned, dog breeders who appreciated the fierceness, courage, and tenacity of the bull dogs turned their attentions to breeding dogs for dog fighting. They began with the bull dog, mixed in some terrier blood, and produced the Bull and Terrier, a dog that met all of their expectations. The Bull and Terrier was bred for aggression to other dogs, unrelenting bravery, a high pain threshold, a willingness to fight to the end, and an affection for people.
Bull and Terrier dogs came to the US in the early 1800s as all-around farm dogs and frontier guardians. Samuel Clemons featured a pup of this breed in his short book The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County.
The United Kennel Club recognized the Bull and Terrier Dog as the American Pit Bull Terrier in 1898. Buster Brown shoes put its mascot in every shoe with the image of Tige, an American Pit Bull Terrier, to enhance its image as a sturdy, dependable shoe. RCA used Nipper, a pit bull of unknown ancestry, to illustrate the clarity of sound emanating from its phonograph -- after all, it could fool the loyal pit bull into thinking he heard "his master's voice" in person. The breed was used to illustrate American neutrality without fear in 1914, the toughness of Levi jeans, and as a"defender of Old Glory."
The AKC eschewed breeds called "pit bulls" until 1936, when it recognized the American Pit Bull Terrier under the alias Staffordshire Terrier, named after the miners of Staffordshire, England, who had a hand in developing the breed for the fighting pit. The name was changed in 1972 to the American Staffordshire Terrier to distinguish the breed from the Staffordshire Bull Terrier of England, the ancestor of the American dogs, which was recognized by AKC in 1974. The British version of the dog is 14-16 inches tall and weighs up to 45 pounds. The American cousin is 18-19 inches tall and weighs up to 80 pounds. UKC's American Pit Bull Terrier is preferred to range from 30-60 pounds with females generally, but not necessarily, smaller than males.
Staffs, AmStaffs, and APBTs produced by responsible breeders are bred for temperament. Many dogs of these breeds are therapy dogs; some do quite well in obedience, and one -- Bandog Dread HIC, VB, SchH 1, CD -- even has a herding title. Another, Solomon J. Grundy, is a service dog for quadriplegic owner Arvid Kuhnle of Saskatoon, Canada, and Bullitt, was shown on the 1985 Easter Seals poster with his owner, Gordy Ranberg of Genesee, Michigan.

So what happened?


The American Pit Bull Terrier and its AKC cousins had a well- deserved reputation as a loyal and trustworthy family pet in the early years of this century, but of late has been severely castigated as a vicious, man-killing beast, worthy of banishment from the cities, considered guilty with no chance of proving innocence in any case.
"Pit bull" is a generic and derogatory term that encompasses any of several breeds of dogs or crosses on those breeds. Pit Bull fanciers can be divided into several camps: conscientious breeders of the AKC-registered duo who often deny kinship of their dogs with the APBT; ethical breeders of the APBT who face squarely the slander heaped upon them by ignorant neighbors; and unethical breeders of all three breeds who still indulge in dog fighting or promote aggressive temperaments for illegal purposes. Dog fighting rings still exist--it's only been a few years since a ring with national ties was busted in New Richmond and Blanchester, Ohio--and inner city drug dealers often use the dogs to guard their drug supplies and cash.
To further complicate matters, those who still breed for fighting are not as careful to preserve the dog's strong instinct to bond with humans as the early breeders did. So, today "pit bull" is a pejorative term that strikes fear in the hearts of many and leads to the spreading of urban legends about dogs with locking jaws that exert 20 thousand pounds of pressure, unstable breed temperament, and overwhelming human aggression.
In fact, the well-bred American Pit Bull Terrier is a family guardian and protector; an intelligent and obedient pet; a sweet, even-tempered dog that serves well as a help-mate to handicapped owner and friend to small children; and a healthy, hardy dog that complains little and offers much to his family.
Unfortunately, it has been more important for legislators in many jurisdictions to prove to constituents that they have "done something" about community problems. Spurred on by media accounts of "pit bull" attacks described in lurid detail, these councils and commissioners have banned pit bulls in all their forms from their communities. Never mind that the owners are the ones at fault for harboring a vicious dog; never mind that few of these dogs actually bite people; never mind that the breed and its crosses are not always easy to identify. Just ban them.
So, many shelters do not offer pit bulls or any dog that might be part pit bull to be adopted. Insurance companies cancel house insurance if a pit bull is in residence. Neighbors mistake everything from Boxers to Pugs as "pit bulls". And those criminals who used pit bulls as protectors of their illegal activities switch to Akitas or Rottweilers.

The standard


The United Kennel Club standard for the American Pit Bull Terrier is rather sparse. The dog is square and powerful with a blocky head, prominent cheeks and jaw, and taut, muscular body. He has a deep chest, and a short, glossy coat of any color. His ears may be cropped or not. Size can range from 30- 50 pounds for females and 35-60 pounds for males. Although they are from the same stock and meet the same criteria as the AKC American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terriers cannot be registered as an AmStaffs, but AmStaffs are admitted to the APBT registry.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 7:58 am

Buzhunter I am pasting your response here

The APBT and AST have become two different breeds through selective breeding mandated by registries. They may have been the same years ago but are clearly two different breeds today. If we allow a registry hell bent on profiting on our stupidity, then we may as well let them lead us to beleive that all dogs are actually wolves. After all they were...thousands of years ago. How many people swear up and down that their 100 pound blue hippo is a "pit bull" just because the UKC gives then that title? Come on... This is what happens when proving your dog to be a bulldog is no longer legal or socially accepted.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 8:04 am

Here is the difference from an asthetic veiwpoint.

Edited

Bulldog:

The most important difference in these two dogs sharing the "pit bull" name is that one has been proven worthy of the honor and the other has been dubbed "pit bull" by the UKC. Not to take anything away from the AST, he's an awesome looking dog. Unfortunately for realists such as myself, looks are not enough. If I was involved in the show circuit, I could walk in the ring with that big impressive AST with a smile. But to put him to work in an honest contest would be embarrassing, no doubt. Breeding ASTs, IMO, is kinda like producing Corvettes with 4 cylinder engines and then claiming them to be "just as good" as the real deal. See?
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 8:07 am

However if the AKC was the one who originally disguised the breed under another name if you will. The only major difference I can see TODAY would be size the amstaff is bred slightly larger depending on the breeder. But hell I have seen some hippo GIGANTIC CH bull legged box dogs as well and don't make me post titles and pictures ..so what's the real difference here??? Has anyone here ever owned an amstaff? Can they truly comment other than size what the difference would be since the whole scam from the beginning was to make a nice group of doggies in one corner and call the amstaffs and a group of fighter's in the other corner an call them pitbulls.

YOU CAN TAKE THE DOG OUT THE BOX BUT YOU CAN'T TAKE THE FIGHT OUT THE DOG REGARDLESS OF WHAT NAME YOU GIVE IT


Last edited by Sadieblues on Sun 07 Sep 2008, 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 8:15 am

Buz all I see is a dog who is smaller and has been beat up from fighting ... so who's to say that red dog won't get in the box and fight to the death? What because the AKC said so by calling the dog an amstaff? I have seen some big ass hippo box dogs with titles and would be more than glad to post pictures and titles if you would like as proof that it means nothing when it all comes down to the nitty gritty the dog will either fight or give up size does not mean anything there are a few game lines like sorrells who bred some monster ass sized dogs for the ring.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 8:20 am

Being a bulldog has nothing to do with looks. Post them big box dogs and titles. I want to see who you are talking about. Never owned an AST. Never could see the logic behind feeding a showdog mainly because I don't beleive in pets. But I did grow up shoveling shit on a yard where both "types" were kept. The differences in thes two dogs, generally speaking, are obvious. The AKC did not "disguise" the dogs. They did not have the Courage to be associated with pit dogs. That's just my opinion though. If you ask me both the AKC and UKC are money hungry and have no interest in preserving these dogs. Look at all the BS they are handing titles to.

That dog only showed one time and was picked up a game loser. A good guy owns that boy and lives in a country where proving a dog's worth is socially acceptable and legal, I might add.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 8:35 am

Sadieblues wrote:


YOU CAN TAKE THE DOG OUT THE BOX BUT YOU CAN'T TAKE THE FIGHT OUT THE DOG REGARDLESS OF WHAT NAME YOU GIVE IT

On the other hand, you cannot make a dog a "pit bull" by putting the label on him. As far as "taking the fight out of the dog" goes; the "fight" is very easily bred out of the dog. It's actually harder to maintain than to lose.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 2:56 pm

Plain and simple there the same breed just pretty much like different bloodlines one bred to be pretty the other bred for performance. Over time they are changing and everything yes but they are still the same breed. Thats just like the difference between show and field with hunting dogs they are still the same breed just bred for different purposes.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 6:21 pm

Ok here we have a few Ch Box dogs who are rather large I could list many but I don't have all day these are not you average little black dogs you posted Mr. Buz

Hammond's Snort (Pig)


Crenshaw's Brutus



PowerHouse Kennels CH deadlift



Sorrells Muzzle



Sorrells Rasin -CH



Wood's Snooty Rom



M&M's M Smiley Rom



Ken Allen's GR CH Tornado






Go to www.gamedogs.com check out the photogallery male section a dog named D&C'S BLUNT he is also big bowl legged.


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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 6:30 pm

I checked other...
Reason being, the two breeds derived from the same lineage. But at the present time the two breeds have different confomation and function
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 6:44 pm

No red the dog's I posted were not flukes they were champion grandchampion fighter's from what I have seen pitbull's from years handed down have come in all different shapes color's and sizes some being extremely large compared to what people will argue and say well that's not the standard of the apbt.. But who says so ? The registries because history show's something completely different. It's quite obvious that size in this breed does not matter when you step outside the ukc/adba/akc ... Game dogs were not bred to the registry standards they were bred to their own standards by the DF...
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 6:48 pm

Okay, the problem with the first pictoral example is that the red dog isn't an AmStaff. He's an APBT. I don't think he's registered with the AKC, and even if he was, he'd be at a high disadvantage due to his coloring. If he's not an APBT because of how he looks, and he's not an AmStaff because the AKC wouldn't touch him, then what is he? What about dual-registered UKC/AKC dogs? For that matter, what about triple-registered UKC/AKC/ADBA ones?

I voted Other. I think the AmStaff can be just as much APBT as the APBT can. It just depends on the person breeding them. If you could find a nice working-bred AmStaff, I'd put it on par with the APBT. On the flip side, there are plenty of APBTs who are being bred to such shoddy personal standards that they could be bested by a good Boxer, let alone a good AmStaff.

APBT? AmStaff? Both? Neither?



And this one?



This one?



How bout this one?



Now, I personally am against things that muddy the waters such as the UKC registering AKC dogs as APBTs. I think they should register them as AmStaffs and let them compete in their own breed ring. BUT! That doesn't negate the fact that there are some damn fine AmStaffs out there who are basically the same animal as our APBT. They may be outnumbered by the ones bred for exaggeration and looks, but they are still out there.

I personally would just as soon call an AST an AST and and APBT an APBT, and accept that they are cousin breeds. But at the same time, I get tired of people telling others that because their dogs aren't [] proven that they aren't APBTs. I call all of my dogs APBTs. And they all get a dose of AmStaff from the Lar-San stuff behind them. (Loki gets it from a slice of Gaff blood in her pedigree as well.) But they will never be AmStaffs, and they were not bred for the AKC ring. They are APBTs.

There are just too many blurred lines in the issue. Dogs don't cooperate by keeping themselves in these neat little profiles we've decided for them. This is why my answer is Other for the time being.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 6:50 pm

WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bahamutt99 GOOD RESPONSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 6:59 pm

I'm cleaning out my Photobucket account, and here are some more examples.

AmStaff or APBT?







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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 7:01 pm

Here's two different pictures of Priest that show how the difference in a few pounds and a pose can make you think it's a different dog.





AmStaff in one pic, APBT in the other? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 7:01 pm

They all look APBT to me Lindsey!! I was looking at alot of colby's old dogs and to me the they all looked amstaff if we are going off the idea that people assume them to be different breed's with different looks.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 7:06 pm

Sadieblues wrote:
They all look APBT to me Lindsey!! I was looking at alot of colby's old dogs and to me the they all looked amstaff if we are going off the idea that people assume them to be different breed's with different looks.

That's kinda my point. They all look APBT, but...



AmStaff. Sagebrush Tacoma Danni.



Not an APBT or AmStaff. A Pitterpatter. (Pit Bull/Patterdale mix) Hell of a little pulling dog, though.



This dog was in the ADBA ring, but he had UKC blood behind him. It was RE, if I'm not mistaken.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Sun 07 Sep 2008, 7:14 pm

goodpost
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Mon 08 Sep 2008, 2:04 am

LOL, I don't care what color that dog's nose is, he's one hell of a good looking AST. Look at that form and structure. He's everything a conf correct AST could ever dream of. put a black nose on him and a buckskin coat and he's BOB today! (tthat is if I was judging) . But I can't bring myself to rely on a registry to label a dog. It's just ludicrous. How many GSDs are great examples here in the US and shit in Germany? How many CH Labs couldn't swim, let alone know what to do with a duck? How many CH beagles couldn't trtack a rabbit to save his life? See what i mean? Who is to say? The stewards of the breed or the politics of registry cliques? The creator or the beholder? The thing is that too many people try to capitalize on the fame that comes with the name.
the registries love dual registration, of course. So do the owners. More opportunity all the way around. More titles, more events, more exposure and publicity. More registration fees and entry fees. I'd say the UCK allows it for the same reasons they register the you know whats. It's just another one of those "pit bull" dilemas. There sure are a bunch. Somehow, the clubs are always involved with the confusion that surrounds these topics. Good discussion though. Anybody got any facts regarding the UKC and sanctioned matches? Definitely a factor. How many times has the standard been ammended since the first? Did the end of sanctioned matches influence the standard? How did the AKC's closing of the studbooks impact the type and standard?
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Mon 08 Sep 2008, 8:00 am

buzhunter wrote:
LOL, I don't care what color that dog's nose is, he's one hell of a good looking AST. Look at that form and structure. He's everything a conf correct AST could ever dream of.

He may have an AmStaffy build, but he's an APBT. I find it more than a little bit rude when people insist on calling others' dogs out of their breeds. But maybe that's just because I've had to listen to people calling my dogs AmStaffs to the point where I tune it out now. Many times, it's just a tool used to decrease the value of that particular dog's accomplishments. "Oh, yay for the AmStaff [but its still not an APBT]."

Of course, that's a separate issue. Or is it?

Quote :
I'd say the UCK allows it for the same reasons they register the you know whats.

I wonder why the ADBA allows it then. A lot of those you know whats came from there. And last I heard, you could take AKC papers straight to the ADBA and get a single reg.
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How many times has the standard been ammended since the first?

I know the standard was just updated recently to make it harder for bully-style dogs to win. Someone posted the standard from the 1970s on another board, but I don't feel like digging it up right now. Maybe later. Frankly, they have to update the standard. A lot of people liked it being very broad, but I'd imagine when that was first written, nobody had any idea just how screwed up our breed was going to get.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Mon 08 Sep 2008, 4:39 pm

No, to be honest, form the pics I've seen of your dogs I would not call them ASTs. But, what exactly makes that particular dog an APBT? Plenty of bullshit registries out there labeling all kinds of stuff as APBT and most are quick to burst their bubble and set them straight. Is that rudeness or simply being honest? What I'm saying is that when it comes down to being honest, the labels bestowed by a club are irrelevant as they have proven over and over again. The UKC will call that dog an APBT just as quick as they will call obvious mixes APBT. See what I mean? Just because the papers say it's true does not make it true. You're right though, the confusion and bullshit thrives off of the extremely broad standards. It's a disgrace. That's why I refuse to be a part of it or accept it to be law.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Mon 08 Sep 2008, 5:03 pm

It's really goofy to keep bringing up the UKC as if they're the only one that does this. ADBA, origin of the Whopper dogs. Lots of AmBullies registered. Will accept AKC papers (ie, AmStaffs). As for what makes King an APBT, I dunno, maybe someone should invite MPRO to take part in this discussion.

You're right, there is a difference between honesty and rudeness. If someone says their dog is an APBT, maybe people shouldn't dispute that on the grounds of what it looks like. I was browsing through pedigrees last night collecting old bulldog photos, and I saw a lot of dogs that looked downright American Bully. (Nice AmBullies, but still...) Just as an example, a newb on another forum had folks tell them that their dog was an AmStaff, dunno why. They called their dog an AmStaff in a later thread, and someone asked why they were referring to their rednose dog as an AmStaff. That sparked a whole 'nother side topic.

So, to revisit the question, what makes that particular dog an APBT, what makes any dog an APBT? If you follow the standard that many people set forth, it is a dog's gameness that makes them an APBT, in which case most of us would be lying if we called our dogs APBTs (since most of us aren't matching our dogs). You could take that a step further and say that if you came across a coonhound with the same level of gameness that an APBT has, it would be an APBT.

To me, what makes an APBT is type, temperament, and utility, not necessarily in that order.
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Mon 08 Sep 2008, 6:42 pm

Lindsey You RAWK !!!!!!!!!!! goodpost goodpost goodpost goodpost goodpost goodpost
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Tue 09 Sep 2008, 5:22 am

bahamutt99 wrote:

You're right, there is a difference between honesty and rudeness. If someone says their dog is an APBT, maybe people shouldn't dispute that on the grounds of what it looks like.

I beg to differ. In times where BSL is looming for all, I beleive that they should be scrutinized. I damn sure don't want to see another yard full of history destroyed over the BSL proponents and the registry standards that the dog wardens use as a guide. As far as how "king" looks - that dog is a picture perfect AST. Those AKC dogs go to bed at night wishing they were built like that. Go get MPRO. Tell him to bring his ped with him. I gotta know what's behind this dog. If he can show me game dogs up close, I'll stand corrected. Yeah, I guess I'm one of those...lol.

BTW, Tara: Come out and breathe. You're gonna suffocate. :) mwuah
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PostSubject: Re: THE APBT AND THE AMSTAFF ARE THEY THE SAME DOG   Tue 09 Sep 2008, 6:35 am

Ok I agree with lindsey here MPRO's dog is not amstaff he is apbt and a nice looking one at that. But hell who am I to judge I think sadie and simba are apbt but I am sure because they are blue many people will argue and say hell no. But I have learned being on these boards to take opinion's with a grain of salt. I see my dogs in person I know what's behind them and what they look like in person regardless of what color they are I know what they are and anyone else who calls them anything but apbt can kiss my a$$!!! Because that's just how much I care about what people have to say about my BLUE dog's. I see my pups drive everyday I know they have alot of heart and determination. And anything a red purple pink black white doggy can do guess what they can do it too and their color does not in anyway make them inferior to the world of apbt's !!! I only bring this in to the topic because I think people tend to judge and label a dog based on meaningless things like color and size. You give me any dog with heart and drive and I'll be content on building on that alone. Everything else is just added on perks. I have just been listening and reading to what people have to say and there opinions for a while now and have built the conculsion that alot of these so called facts are really just opinions so on that note I have drawn my own opinions and stand by them firmly regardless of what people say or think.

Perfect Example someone said sadie is big for 5 months old on another forum ... But because she is blue people will automatically assume or say she must be bully or amstaff ... Personally I can't see how she looks any different from any other apbt her age. She is nicely put together and her head and body are all in porportion with everything else but because of her color she automatically is classified as something else.

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